Modern Scandinavian Qd6

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Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by fanat on July 3rd 2009, 5:18 pm

Anybody tried to play Scandinavian lines that ICS suggested? I'm going through the material and will give it a try in another week or so. So far seems to be a very flexible opening with lots choice for black on how to play. Seems like it could give good counter play for a full point!
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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Bilbo on July 3rd 2009, 5:57 pm

Andrew Martin made a chesbase dvd on the QD6 Scandanavian too, worth checking out, I presume you know how and where to download it.

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Bilbo on July 3rd 2009, 6:04 pm

Not sure if you've checked Megadatabase but there are a few well annotated games on there.

I like games with lots of verbose commentary rather than just annotations and there are four or five well annotated games in English that could serve as model games.

Dieter Nispeneanu has one, some guy called M Roiz has full commentary for two Fatnik has annotated a couple including a Tiavakov game.

Looks like about 5 or 6 games in all after Qd6 that have full English written commentary rather than just annotations.

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by fanat on July 3rd 2009, 9:34 pm

I have Andrew Martin's dvds and have been watching them. They seem to complement ICS material quiet nicely but still, ICS material is much better!

Of course Tiviakov who is like 2700 plays Modern Scandinavian and his games are a great resource! I have some of his annotated games from Megabase and some of other players.

Also, I've got a copy of Michael Melts "Scandinavian Qd6" book but I still didn't get a chance to look at it in great detail YET!

Also, there seems to be a series of 6 lectures from chesslectures.com on Scandinavian Qd6! I've just started watching one and they also supplement ICS material nicely!
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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Bilbo on July 4th 2009, 6:35 am

It certainly seems to be a fashionable system right now!

I'm going to learn it next year and force myself to play 1.e5 for the next few months though. I get the feeling that if I knew the Scandanavian I would wimp out at tournaments against unknown or high rated players and play 1.d5 because I was afraid of all the potential replies after 1.e5.

I do think 1.e5 is the opening that takes the most balls to play as you can get hit with a seemingly unlimited number of openings and gambits and I think if I had an alternative right now I'd never play 1.e5 out of fear, and I want to be a fearless player Cool

So I'll learn the Scandanavian as a suprise weapon and backup system only after I've made myself comfortable with everything white can throw at me after 1....e5

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 13th 2009, 4:55 pm

I am thinking about going to their Scandinavian. My main problem before was lack of plans and such for black, I had no idea what to do as had no good sources except game dumps. Now, with ICS I may try it again.

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 13th 2009, 4:56 pm

Good luck Bilbo, that is noble. I want to not have to learn much so d5 seems good. Smile

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by fanat on July 15th 2009, 11:05 am

Anybody is studying/playing Scandianvian Qd6 currently?
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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 20th 2009, 10:05 am

While when I played this once before (just superficially for a couple of weeks) I found it very drawish, I am going to give it another shot now that ICS has material on it. I've been playing the Caro for about six months now, and I have nothing against the Caro, but I'd like to work with the ICS systems if possible. It could be I end up not liking it for the same reasons, but maybe not!

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by fanat on July 20th 2009, 10:34 am

BDK,

Did you mention once before that you think that French is boring??? And you are playing Caro-Kann???? Very Happy

I have Houska's book "Play the Caro-Kann" is excellent! Every time I look at the book I want to learn CK. But, it is still very drawish an boring according to virtually anybody. I will wait for month 9 of ICS when they give French material.

Scandinavian seems to be a pretty flexible opening that could be very sharp. At least from my limited experience and looking at all the games. Nothing like Caro-Kann or most of French lines.
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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 20th 2009, 10:59 am

The Caro is a large sprawling complicated opening and while some lines may be sort of boring in theory, I have not found this in practice. I suppose it depends what lines you choose, but Houska's book is a pretty fighting repertoire.

One reason I like it more than the French is that you don't have to wait twenty moves to develop your light-squared Bishop. Indeed, for me it is to the French as the Slav is to the QGD. Why play an early e6 and trap the bishop when you can play c6 and not trap it, and if they force an exchange, you've moved a c-pawn into the center but still have a pawn you can move to e6 if you want to (after getting out the B). On the down side, of course, the consequence is your queenside is a bit weaker, especially the b7 square (so white sometimes plays Qb3, but not too soon as she often needs to defend the N on f3!).

So, I like the Caro as it seems (for my tastes, and of course this is subjective!) an ideal mixture of activity (you can get out the Bishop) and solidity (the structure with pawns on c6, e6, and such is very hard to destroy early).

As for the Scandy Qd6, while I didn't give it much of a chance, I saw very similar structures most games, and with pretty standard play it becomes drawish. Even if you look at Chesslecture.com they have six or more lectures on this opening, and the guy is like 'Oh look this GM has played it six times. He drew with it each time, which is very respectable.' Yes, that is respectable. But is it fun?

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by fanat on July 20th 2009, 11:08 am

I've listened to 4 out of 6 lectures from chesslecture.com so far and they give great explanations!

Tiviakov is the highest rated GM that plays it constantly! Drew with it against Anand!

I think the answer lies with HOW you play it. Maybe my games with it won't be mostly draws but ... losses! Very Happy

Do you know that same Houska is writing a "Starting out: Scandinavian"? It should be out in another month or so! I hope the book is of the same quality as her "play the CK" book
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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 20th 2009, 12:46 pm

fanat: drawing against Anand is no small feat, I must admit. I frankly hope I like the Scandinavian again as I would very much like to work within an ICS repertoire! I hope Houska recommends Qd6! Does anyone know?

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by fanat on July 20th 2009, 1:56 pm

Blue Devil Knight wrote:fanat: drawing against Anand is no small feat, I must admit. I frankly hope I like the Scandinavian again as I would very much like to work within an ICS repertoire! I hope Houska recommends Qd6! Does anyone know?

ICS material on Scandinavian is actually very good! Much better and deeper explanations that video lectures I've seen so far.

As far as Houska's book: I don't know what it will cover. It doesn't even say anything on Everyman's site or her site. I guess overview of all systems within Scandinavian as well as our Qd6.
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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 20th 2009, 4:25 pm

She played Qd6 and Qa5 in different games at a recent tournament with good results.

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Bilbo on July 21st 2009, 10:04 pm

Well the intro blurb states she plays this with both black and white and that the book will teach you all you need to know to play the Scandinavian on both sides, so guessing Both 3. Qd6, 3. Qa5 and 2. Nf6 lines will be covered

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 21st 2009, 10:25 pm

Looking over the ICS material, I'm a bit underwhelmed. It seems like much more of a game dump than their other material. Lots of lines that end with "and look at the following games." The main line they offer they don't give any attacking ideas, none of the key squares for pieces, no TO DO lists. Just a game that fizzles out into a draw (a game which, at my level, would definitely not be a draw.

The first couple of pages (on non-mainline bits of the opening) are thorough, but like much else it seems they fizzle out when it comes to the main lines. I think I will probably stick with the Caro Kann. For one, I've been playing it a few months, and it is probably a mistake to pick a whole new opening!

I've played the Qd6 line in some blitz games, and I like the lines with early a6/b5 (the lines they recommend against for most variations, instead suggesting ...c6 which is more solid--but I might as well play the Caro which is very similar!).

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Bilbo on July 22nd 2009, 12:17 am

Yeah I don't think the openings module is anywhere near as good as their main module.

When you consider that the Scandanavian module cost as much as a devoted book on the subject there is very little content, 17 pages is pretty piddly.

On reflection I would never have signed up to the openings module as I find it to be of poor value compared to any decent opening book.

But I'm 5 months in now so I'll go through to the end.

What's especially annoying though is that I don't see me using any more than maybe 20% of their recommendations anyway.

I only 1.d4 so that's the 1.e4 module irelevent to me, I only play 1.e5 against 1.e4 so that's their Sicilian, Scandanavian and French modules of no use.

I have no intention of playing the Dutch and I prefer the Queens Gambit to the Catalan so really I'm not even using most of their stuff.

The only lines I've learnt so far were the Dutch and the Benko Declined but on their own their material is wholly inadequate, it's barely any more detailed coverage in those lines than you'd get in the introduction of a reportoire book.

Gabor Kalai's Basic Chess openings goes into more detail and has more emphasis on plans and middlegames than ICS does in these lines at least.

I'm just hoping the final 3 months when it goes over the white reportiore with annotated games can save it.

But I feel like I'm being shortchanged, especially when their original advert promised annotated games and lots of questions to solve.

But they have basically retracted on most of the major openings they intended to cover, the promise for lots of annotated games and the promise for lots of exercises.

Disappointing, maybe a 4/10 compared to the main module which I would give an 8.5/10.

I think Artur Yusupov's books coupled with Grootens Chess Strategy For Club Players represents far better value though at around £60 all in, compared with the ICS total of well over £300

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Bilbo on July 22nd 2009, 2:34 am

On reflection maybe my criticisms were a little harsh Laughing

I mean it's not the fault of a reportoire module if I choose not to use the recommended lines, and the openings which I have complained about limited coverage are pretty marginal openings in the scheme of things.

Also the lines they give in both cases (Dutch and Benko) are well off the trodden path so it would be hard to get any high level information on these openings elsewhere, which gives us an advantage.

Finally I am thinking mainly about the pdf's I have been studying from up to now, but in both case here the online browser version and chessbase files offer more lines and detail and do cover the main options for black and give a decent summary of plans.

Maybe a 6/10 right now rising to 7 if the final 3 months are good.

Also if there was too much work and theory given to us, it would probably overwhelm me and I'd never get around to studying it anyways Very Happy

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on July 22nd 2009, 5:35 am

Their opening material is definitely inconsistent in quality. Some is amazing, some is simply inadequate.

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Chemwong on June 11th 2011, 5:14 pm

I am a loyal Qd6 Scandinavian now!

But if after 1.e4 d5
White plays 2.e5, how to respond?

one common way would be playing 2. ... e6 to transpose it to
French defense, Advance variation.

But I have also seen a sidelind with tempting winning % for black:
2. ... c5
Which is better? I still cannot figure it out

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by Blue Devil Knight on June 12th 2011, 1:17 pm

2...c5

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by BorgQueen on June 12th 2011, 8:31 pm

Agree -- I'd play c5 there.

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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by HangingKing on June 13th 2011, 6:05 pm

I would not play french as black, it favors white in my opinion especially if he played e5, maybe it is exactly what your oponnent wants.
Bf5 first then e6 transpose to bird which is maybe better.

c5 is good on the paper, this is one of the scandinavian main lines, but be sure to know how to defend the light squares toward your king and do not forget to castle (since you will have to develop on queenside to handle these light squares, and e5 blocks kingside knight dvp).

My opponent play e5, ok, let's have fun, i would play d4 and see what happens. This is not a known line for both players, but personnaly i like this from time to time :-)




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Re: Modern Scandinavian Qd6

Post by PawnCustodian on June 13th 2011, 6:42 pm

Chemwong wrote:I am a loyal Qd6 Scandinavian now!
But if after 1.e4 d5
White plays 2.e5, how to respond?

I've been having good success with the Qd6 Scandinavian in correspondence and OTB.

While I haven't faced this variation my plan is to 2...Bf5, 3...e6, and 4...c5, playing for a French without the obstructed Bishop.

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