A Question on the Given Openings

View previous topic View next topic Go down

A Question on the Given Openings

Post by pygmalion on March 13th 2011, 9:01 pm

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me why the e4-openings are given so differently than the d4-repertoire, with countless variations and seemingly much less textual theory. I'm asking since I'm interested in studying both.

Thanks in advance.


Last edited by pygmalion on March 14th 2011, 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

pygmalion
Learning the Rules
Learning the Rules

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-03-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by mrhollywood95 on March 13th 2011, 10:54 pm

I think it is because the ICS folks are recommending us to play d4 because they believe that d4 openings are more dynamic and match up well with their teachings.
Just my theory of course.....

Tony

__________________________________________
http://tonyschessblog.blogspot.com/

mrhollywood95
Club Player
Club Player

Posts : 27
Join date : 2011-01-12
Age : 40
Location : Warren, MI

View user profile http://tonyschessblog.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by pygmalion on March 14th 2011, 10:15 am

mrhollywood95 wrote:I think it is because the ICS folks are recommending us to play d4 because they believe that d4 openings are more dynamic and match up well with their teachings.
Just my theory of course.....

Tony
Thanks for your answer.
Does that imply that it is advisable to look elsewhere to learn these e4-openings thoroughly, or at most just to use it as a reference?

pygmalion
Learning the Rules
Learning the Rules

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-03-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by LostTactic on March 14th 2011, 11:19 am

Personally I haven't found this a problem, however if you feel you need more annotations then it's definitely worth buying a book. I'm a big fan of the Grandmaster Repertoire series by Quality Chess, my own d4 repertoire is based on the ICS, Avrukhs GM rep 1 & 2 books and also Wojo's Weapon series lines. If you can wait till end of year I know Quality Chess are making a 3 volume repertoire for 1.e4 in their GM series.

LostTactic
Scholastic Player
Scholastic Player

Posts : 18
Join date : 2011-02-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by PawnCustodian on March 14th 2011, 1:20 pm

I don't think you need to worry too much about the opening repertoire choice, from what I've seen the main course covers both e4 and d4 game selections completely.

As to whether you should get another opening book or not, it depends. From my experience through month 8 what I would suggest is that you should consider a game database first if you don't already have one. This is because what ICS provides is a repertoire, and you will quickly find the GM Series and ICS' Repertoire represent the author's preferences and are never intended as a "complete" theory on a given opening.

With a games database you will have the tools to do your own research when you get out of the recommendations or need to fill some of the voids that the repertoire(s) overlook. In the ICS main course they will provide guidance on working with games to study and develop your reperoire on your own.

Then, if you decide to specialize, one of the "theory" books would useful and provide complete coverage, or if you decide to replace portions of the ICS repertoire then certainly the GM Series is a great choice.

In my own case I'm looking forward to the upcoming release by quality chess on the Scandinavian which is one of the ICS recommendations for black that I am now using in practice. The book is one of those that give a complete "theory" of the defense.

PawnCustodian
International Master
International Master

Posts : 375
Join date : 2010-08-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by pygmalion on March 14th 2011, 2:23 pm

Thank you again for your answers.
While I much appreciate the book recommendations mentioned, I was hoping for a review of the e4-repertoire as opposed to the d4-openings, if anyone has gone through both of them. I have done many of d4 and really enjoyed them, but I had quite the different observation of the e4-variations.
I am indeed using an enormous game database, and you are correct to point it out as an essential proponent of a decent opening study.

pygmalion
Learning the Rules
Learning the Rules

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-03-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by LostTactic on March 14th 2011, 3:46 pm

On the point of usefullness of game databases I think you need to be careful using lines from them in your repertoire, for example; a game database can list you all the games in a certain position and even the win, loss and draw % for white and black, however, it cannot tell you which lines are safe because a novelty in 1 game which gave a player a win could have been easily refuted in another game. Therefore when it comes to game databases I use them solely for the annotations on openings that I play (I recommend MegaDatabase for this purpose, pricey but worth it), however when it comes to making alterations to my own opening repertoire I use chesspublishing.com for this as they keep you updated monthly on new lines and refutations in all the most played openings (cost £59 for annual gold sub [well worth the money imo, but they have cheaper options as well going down to as little as £19 per year]). And basically what I do is plug these new lines into my repertoire using Chess Opening Wizard (software for storing opening repertoires), that way I can know for sure that the lines I'm learning and playing are the most up to date and concrete lines.

P.s went a bit off-topic there but it's just general advice of caution on the reliance on game databases.

LostTactic
Scholastic Player
Scholastic Player

Posts : 18
Join date : 2011-02-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by PawnCustodian on March 14th 2011, 4:30 pm

pygmalion wrote:Thank you again for your answers.
While I much appreciate the book recommendations mentioned, I was hoping for a review of the e4-repertoire as opposed to the d4-openings, if anyone has gone through both of them. I have done many of d4 and really enjoyed them, but I had quite the different observation of the e4-variations.
I am indeed using an enormous game database, and you are correct to point it out as an essential proponent of a decent opening study.

When I was getting started I had the impression that they put the best effort into the d4 repertoire and only added the e4 as an afterthought. Even as a retired old guy with lots of time I couldn't do both and so decided to focus on d4 and let the e4 repertoire alone, so I can't say whether the trend continues.

PawnCustodian
International Master
International Master

Posts : 375
Join date : 2010-08-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by PawnCustodian on March 14th 2011, 4:45 pm

LostTactic wrote:And basically what I do is plug these new lines into my repertoire using Chess Opening Wizard (software for storing opening repertoires), that way I can know for sure that the lines I'm learning and playing are the most up to date and concrete lines.

Sounds like we are using similiar tools and workflow.

I'm taking the ICS repertoire at face value, the first thing I do each month is port it into Chess Opening Wizard and learn the repertoire. Generally I strip everything out of COW that I don't intend to play, including some of the ICS lines where they give you a choice. And as you suggest, I'll use lines from chesspub to fill in voids, or for the annotations which are outstanding.

PawnCustodian
International Master
International Master

Posts : 375
Join date : 2010-08-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by pygmalion on March 14th 2011, 10:34 pm

I much agree on the method and the way to go here, but just to wanted to say that I do not like Chess Openings Wizard that much. Maybe it is just me or I am not using it right, but I am struggling more with the program than with the actual openings.

Would anyone know of a different, yet maybe more accessible, chess openings program, since its pragmatic effectiveness is certainly clear.

pygmalion
Learning the Rules
Learning the Rules

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-03-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by PawnCustodian on March 15th 2011, 7:31 am

A lot of folks seem to like CPT.

http://www.chesspositiontrainer.com/

PawnCustodian
International Master
International Master

Posts : 375
Join date : 2010-08-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by Larsen_fan on March 15th 2011, 7:42 pm

I use bookup (Chess opening wizard). I have not subscribed for the opening course because i wish to build my own repetoire but I am in the process of entering my repetoire into COW and I plan on annotating variations and reference games using "ICS-style". Example: I am using C. Ward "play the queens gambit" as my main repetoire book on the white side of the queens gambit. Ward suggest 3. e4 against queens gambit accepted. I just finished entering the main variations into COW and will now start describing CQS and to-do-lists 2 dxc4 CQS: Black takes with a central pawn away from the centre and removes his influence on the vital square e4. He opens the d-file which may potentially put pressure on d4. To-do-list: Take control of e4 and gain space in the centre. Gain initiative by threatening to take back the material. Establish preassure along semi-open c-file (as You can tell im only six days into the course Wink ). This will take some time but I hope the time spend will be of more value than memorizing variations.

Larsen_fan
Scholastic Player
Scholastic Player

Posts : 11
Join date : 2011-03-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by pygmalion on March 15th 2011, 8:12 pm

Well, the program isn't just for memorizing variations (that would go well from the pdf), but to have a structured system which gives a deep overview and/or just an organized notation system specifically built for a repertoire. You can certainly use it by yourself, without the opening course.

Thank you very much for the CPT recommendation. It's easy to use, extensive and free.

pygmalion
Learning the Rules
Learning the Rules

Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-03-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by PawnCustodian on March 16th 2011, 8:52 am

Larsen_fan wrote:I use bookup (Chess opening wizard). I have not subscribed for the opening course because i wish to build my own repetoire but I am in the process of entering my repetoire into COW and I plan on annotating variations and reference games using "ICS-style"..... This will take some time but I hope the time spend will be of more value than memorizing variations.

Ouch! That hurts, but if it works for you great...

Here's a suggestion based on the ICS "work on your own" recommendations that I tried and found effective:

1. Select about 30 -60 representative games in your opening. You can do a search in your database from the variations index of your given opening book. Skim all of the games quickly and make your notes on plans, alternatives, transpositions, etc. After your review is a good time to run blunder check on the dataset to weed out any games with serious flaws you might have missed. (You will get good practice of skimming games in month 2 where there are 100+ games to practice reviewing the various centre formations).

2. Pick 1-3 games as model games to drill down - here's where to add comments and variations from your chosen opening book. If you don't find enough games at step one, run some RR engine tournements then analyze those games. I've had to do this with several of the terminal positions from the ICS repertoire.

3. Then move the commented model games to COW or CPT and add any further comments, to do lists, etc. and updates.


PawnCustodian
International Master
International Master

Posts : 375
Join date : 2010-08-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A Question on the Given Openings

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum