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Re: Dutch

Post by Chessbud on July 10th 2009, 3:03 pm

I have been thinking hard about the Stonewall. Every time I think about giving up the King’s Indian it gives me a reason to keep playing it. For example, I beat an opponent almost rated 2500 in 23 moves at a recent tournament with it. However, I have had horrible loses as well. It is a lot of theory that I don’t know but perhaps if I would take the time to learn the theory I could do a lot better. It also a universal solution to everything except e4. Stonewall is good as well, easy to play and like you said goes well with the French. Aagard’s book on the Stonewall is very good. That Dynamic English book is another project of mine. I want go through it. I currently have 12 games with the English and like what I see so far but I need to learn the line where black goes c6 early better. I'm really looking forward to the new books coming out on the English called Grandmaster Repertoire Volume 3 by Michael Marin. Here’s a link to those books. I'm hoping the English books will be based on complete games. What I like about the English is it is very deceptive. Seems like white is playing passive, but it’s that nagging persistent edge that you get. Teaches you good positional chess as well. Sounds like your are on track to get a complete and coherent opening repertoire… That’s very important.
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/sections/6/coming_soon/

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Re: Dutch

Post by fanat on July 10th 2009, 3:21 pm

I'm definitely waiting for the Marin's book. It comes out at the end of the Summer I think.

Also, there is another good book coming out soon - Starting out: The Scandinavian by Houska! Her book on Caro-Kann was excellent and I'm sure this one will be great.

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Re: Dutch

Post by Chessbud on July 10th 2009, 3:48 pm

And don't forget Marin's books are two books. The first book is 1.c4 e5 and the second book is 1. c4 versus everything else. The second book comes out in November I think. I am eagerly awaiting Houska's book as there is a good chance I will take back up the center counter that I played for twenty years. I played it back in 1985 and got my expert title with it and played it all the way to 2007 when I switched to the French. Back in 1985 players would come up to me and say I can't believe a player of your rating would play that Junk. Now it is a mainline opening.. I played the q-a5 line and may still play the q-a5 line. A good book for that line is the Essential Center Counter by Andrew Martin. Though q-d6 looks interesting. Keep in mind that white plays all sorts of things beside 3. N-c3 as well...Center counter is a tough nut to crack....I eagely await month 4 of ICS.

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Re: Dutch

Post by fanat on August 4th 2009, 2:27 pm

Well guys,

I've just received my copy of "Win with the Stonewall Dutch" and the book looks fantastic!

I was studying from Aagaard's book for the last 2 week and most of the games are not really well annotated. I wish the plans would be explained better. Now, this new books seems more basic and explanations are great!

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Re: Dutch

Post by BobbyBlunder on August 4th 2009, 4:57 pm

On the issue of opening theory and which system to choose. For White the standard advice is to play main lines and try to secure some safe advantage by reaching a position where the initiative is in play or it has been transformed in to something more permanent. Small but permanent.

For black the choice boils down to - do you want to try to neutralize white's initiative or counter-attack? The general advice is , whatever your preference, make it mainstream. You need to have confidence in your opening systems and they need to teach you something about chess middlegames and strategy.

The issue of theory is sort of irrelevent at U2300 what counts is understanding. Even many of the big theoretical positions in practice at the U2300 level will not be won by rehearsed moves. Chances are your non-booked opponent will deviate long before the key positions are reached. What matters is your feel for the position that does arise. If you understand the position you will find a good plan. Particularly if you complete ICS and have a good grasp of chess logic!

Unless you are a professional most of your opponents are not willing to sit down and work on the systems in the way that is needed. So in practice if you do that, then you will do well.

For example lets have a look at the Kings Indian. Strategically rich opening. If you want to counter-attack, this fits the bill. Too much theory? Not really. There are only so many pawn structures and typical plans. Make sure you know the CSQ of the move orders and you are good to go. Frankly The subtleties are not that significant U2300 and you don't need to know them. A good way of circumventing theory here is to play a line in a mainstream opening that is OK but just not fashionable. For example your opponent plays the main line classical Kings Indian with a view to playing the very popular Bayonet attack (9 b4)

Your choices are 6...Ndb7 or 6...Na6 instead of Nc6 or even 6...Bg4. If you do play the main line instead of playing Nf6 when the Knight is on h5 drop it on f4. This line is fine but just not fashionable.

So this part is key if you want to reduce your workload but follow the advice to play 'proper' openings: Avoid fashionable lines in mainstream openings, don't avoid mainstream openings but make sure you are clear on whether you prefer to counter-attack or dampen down white's initiative. If you are the latter don't play the King's Indian or Dutch. You will be better off with the QGD Tartakower or something. Some systems are good at being solid while not ruling out the play for a win - hence the popularity of the Nimzoindian and the Slav.

Me? I'm a King's Indian kind of guy. Against e4 I play the Sveshnikov. Too much theory? Not really the Sveshnikov has only a few pawn structures and you learn to appreciate piece play compensating for shattered pawn structures. In practice though hardly anyone ever plays the Open Sicilian so you end up playing against Bb5, c3, Nc3 and f4.

In summary, if you learn to play mainstream openings your opponent will often toss away their advantage to avoid the main lines. Job done!

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Re: Dutch

Post by Bilbo on August 4th 2009, 5:21 pm

I agree it is funny how at the lower levels you never get games that go more than a few moves of theory anyway. Plus at my level of just having played for a year none of my opponents play main lines.

So far I've played 51 games and despite being a 1....e5 player that whole time I've never once faced the Ruy Lopez proper, only the exchange variation a couple of times and mostly variations on the Italian game and Ponziani, with maybe a single Kings Gambit and Viena Game.

It's funny when playing against 1.d4 though most people do play the mainline Queens Gambit (at least for a few moves until they run out of knowledge) rather than go in for the Colle, Torre, London, Trompowsky etc.

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Re: Dutch

Post by fanat on August 5th 2009, 4:15 pm

BobbyBlunder,

I see what you are saying and I completely agree.

In your opinion, Stonewall Dutch is not the "proper" opening?

In my limited time playing chess, I've looked at some replies to e4. Mainly, Caro-Cann, French, and Ruy Lopez. I haven't studied any one of them in detail but they haven't sat down with me too well. I just felt uncomfortable! As a d4 player, when I stared to play Caro-Cann and French I was completely lost Smile Obviously, at the end of ICS course, with better positional understanding this might change completely!

Now, Stonewall Dutch feel pretty nice! Positional system that you can definitely play a bit more aggressive if you want to.

The other important thing for me is the selection of the study material and opening that doesn't require LOTs of theory and study time like Sicilian, Kings Indian, or even French! This new book "Win with the Stonewall Dutch" is excellent! It really explains things nicely, lays out the plans and has very nice annotated games!

I compare all opening books to Houska's "Play the Caro-Cann". This book actually measures up!

The bottom line is obviously that openings don't matter all that much for lower rated players and it doesn't matter what opening I play. I don't win or lose games because of openings. But, if I understand ideas in specific the opening I'm ready for anything!

I think I will stick to this opening for a while. In addition to ICS material, I have Aagaard's Dutch book with lots of good games so I have my work cut out for me.

I will ignore Semi-Slav material that ICS started to offer for now because I would rather concentrate on one system.

Very Happy

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Re: Dutch

Post by fanat on August 5th 2009, 4:32 pm

I've spent this afternoon going over some games from this "Win with the Stonewall Dutch".

The games are very nicely annotated! Deep annotations with lots of verbal explanations! Plans and consequences, lots of comments on pawn structures.

Even if somebody doesn't play Dutch just going over games will be a big benefit!

At the end of each chapter there are nice summaries also. Highly recommended book!

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Re: Dutch

Post by Bilbo on August 5th 2009, 6:28 pm

I'm going to take up the Stonewall Dutch shortly now. I've decided to become a fully commited ICS devotee now and play all their opening reportoires starting with 1.d4 then looking at the Dutch and Scandanavian, playing them for a year and after that starting to learn the richer openings, the French, Kalashnikov and Sicilian.

I'll even take up 1.e4 I think in 12 months or so just to shake up my chess.

I had a browse through the book above at the bookstore at the British Champs this afternoon and it does indeed look to be well put together.

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Re: Dutch

Post by BobbyBlunder on August 5th 2009, 6:36 pm

The Stonewall Dutch is just fine! You will probably find some top GM's willing to tell you that is incorrect in some way. For example Korchnoi believes that the Kings Indian is not correct while Fischer said the same thing about Korchnoi's French ... and so it goes on. The Stonewall Dutch teaches you about chess - it is a good counter-attacking opening (1... f5 is not an initiative neutralizing system). Caro-Kann obviously has a fine pedigree.

The volume of theory you want to get involved in has a relationship with your expectations regarding the initiative. I understand that not all us can spend hours every night pouring over every nuance in every variation.
If you want to limit your opening study - that is understandable. In practice this means as white you will probably have to accept more or less equal positions and as black, white will have a slight advantage of some kind.

At our level that is fine. If you feel good about the positions you play and understand them well, then you will be successful. Frankly at 1800 or something += is not much different to = or =+. You might not want to give Kramnik a += but Mr Smith (1600) from Anytown is going to blow all that with his very next move!

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